I'm looking for comments from Brother Dell Gines, Tight Move, Noble One and anyone else who is serious about a discussion regarding THE ECONOMIC PLIGHT of the Black community.
Peace.
Ali Muhammad
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
lighthouseali |
''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread |
Lead | |
|
I'm looking for comments from Brother Dell Gines, Tight Move, Noble One and anyone else who is serious about a discussion regarding THE ECONOMIC PLIGHT of the Black community. Peace. Ali Muhammad |
|||
Eon Neo |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
Lighthouse, Peace
I didn't know how extensive the NOI was in its self sufficiency. I had heard about the Bank & the schools, but I didn't know about the farmland, supermarkets, fish imports, distribution etc. That was a very inspiring & informative thread. Ill be visiting muhammadfarms.com to see how I can contribute. Itll most likely be with $. Getting a market is indeed a hard thing to accomplish in a world of Wal-Mart, Publix, and other regional market chains. We are so convenience oriented (me included), we just wanna run up the street to get our needs met i.e. food & clothes. Ill do my best to break out of this mentality in order to benefit a more independent Black population. Thanks for posting this thread Ali. Peace |
|||
Cosmonaut Seven |
Thats beautiful | ||
|
I thought as I looked at the pic of the brothers on the farmland that we should have like a compulsory service in the field. Every person between the age of say 12-25 live on the farm for a year doing various labors. That might enhance productivity and definitely educate.
Thanks for the visuals. Inspiring. |
|||
Dell Gines |
Re: Thats beautiful | ||
|
Exactly, and that is what we need more of. People can talk about struggle and liberation all they want, but every movement requires finance to secure it at the end of the day.
Until we create systems of commerce and integrated (as best as possible) supply chains, which means from manufacturing to retail we will always be left behind because economics is the cornerstone to any nationhood, and any independence. But we have to position ourselves not just to sell to each other, but to sell outside of our communities as well, because that is how wealth and income increases. www.dellgines.com
Adequate Defense |
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Muhammad Farms Information | ||
|
ASA,
Thank you for this mostly historical view of reality. It is very much appreciated. May I suggest that before you make a financial contribution to Muhammad Farms that you visit it for one day. Just one day... Get with Bro Dr. Ridgely Mu'min Muhammad, the NOI's Minister of Agriculture. This one day visit may provide you with information that can make your "contribution" far more effective. Visiting the 16,000 acre farm is recommended for All. |
|||
knowledgemath |
re | ||
|
I really enjoyed reading this and it was very informative and also inspiring. We do have the self-determination to provide for self and in a major way. We can do much more than the routine barbershop/salon,carwash,etc... My question is this when did all the businesses close down? where are they still thriving and why were they allowed to dismantle them? I agree that we must provide for ourselves...myself along with a few associates of mine are in the first stages of planning on starting a school and along with that a fresh fruit market...this was a dope post Ali
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
12-25 | ||
|
This idea of youth labor is pregnant with success and will greatly help if not solve the labor ?. thank you all for this work, peace.
|
|||
lighthouseali |
Eon Neo, Cosmonaut Seven, Dell Gines, Knowledgemath... | ||
|
Brother Neo... "I didn't know how extensive the NOI was in its self sufficiency. I had heard about the Bank & the schools, but I didn't know about the farmland, supermarkets, fish imports, distribution etc." - Eon Neo Oft times, NOI are historically typecast as 'good speakers' and while contributing to the rise of the consciousness of the masses is neccessary, building the physical should accompany building the spiritual and the mental. One of the reasons that I started this thread was to show the extent to which 'the Black Muslims' were bringing benefit to the Black community. "Getting a market is indeed a hard thing to accomplish in a world of Wal-Mart, Publix, and other regional market chains." - Eon Neo If one breaks through the financial barriers, other obstacles are in place. The interest of white folks is secured in more than one way. Imagine the way most of our businesses would have gone had not there been an army in place to protect our businesses. ![]() F.O.I. I heard a story about the mafia stealing one of the Nation's trucks and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad made one phone call and it was back by the morning of the next day. I also heard that the mafia had previously wanted a piece of Muhammad Ali's profits and had threatened to break his legs if he didn't comply. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told Muhammad Ali to tell them that they have legs that can be broken also. No organized crime rings profited from our labor. Brother Cosmonaut... "I thought as I looked at the pic of the brothers on the farmland that we should have like a compulsory service in the field." - Cosmonaut Seven You know...I think that would be an excellent form of community service for those of our people who have committed crimes against the community. I think that prison labor should not benefit private-owned industry, but rather industry established to meet the needs of our people. Especially when we consider that most of the crimes committed by our people are done against our people. Man, your suggestion is pregnant with much possibility. When inmates are released, the probability of their having employment is greatly increased due to their labor (while in prison) directly benefiting our entities. "Every person between the age of say 12-25 live on the farm for a year doing various labors. That might enhance productivity and definitely educate." - Cosmonaut Seven The only problem that I see is that our people have developed a dislike toward working the land because we were forced to work the land during slavery. We would have to build the desire within our people which would naturally incline them to WILLINGLY submit themselves to such service. Of course to employ the services of those who are 12-17, we would have to have teachers who were willing to lend their services to those volunteers. Brother Dell... "People can talk about struggle and liberation all they want, but every movement requires finance to secure it at the end of the day." - Dell Gines Exactly. Excuses have been removed. It becomes and issue of 'putting your money where your mouth is'. One other reason why I started this thread is to show that we need not act as hamsters running in circles in on going discussions about how we can improve the economic condition of our communities. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. We have seen panel discussion after panel discussion with people saying things such as "economics is the last leg of the civil rights movement" and other similar statements. We remain in a perpetual state of 'what we need to do' and make no real motion. With all due respect to Claude Anderson (Powernomics) and others of our people who devise plans as to how we can economically empower ourselves, let us implement an ACCESSIBLE PLAN which has ALREADY been TRIED, TESTED and PROVEN. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. The results speak for themselves. "Until we create systems of commerce and integrated (as best as possible) supply chains, which means from manufacturing to retail we will always be left behind because economics is the cornerstone to any nationhood, and any independence." - Dell Gines You bring up a very key point in that the systems of commerce must be integrated. It does not suffice to own farm land, grain houses, grocery stores and bakeries while having no trucking system in place to transport your goods from point A to point B. The establishments must support eachother. "we have to position ourselves not just to sell to each other, but to sell outside of our communities as well, because that is how wealth and income increases." - Dell Gines From working at the Lighthouse Tape (and Book) Source, I have learned that people will purchase from you if you have a product that they cannot get in their own community. White men and women have come into our 'Black Muslim' store to purchase the book, "The Secret Relationship between Blacks and Jews". Arab men have come from their homes in the cities of Dearborn and Hamtramck to purchase tapes of Minister Farrakhan from our store in Detroit. And as a side note...that is how we should conduct ourselves. The only time that we should spend outside of our community is when a product or service is not available within our community, but that is a different topic. Brother Knowledgemath... "We do have the self-determination to provide for self and in a major way. We can do much more than the routine barbershop/salon,carwash,etc..." - knowledgemath Agreed. I am glad that you mentioned "in a major way". I am sure that before the communities of Rosewood, Florida and Oaklahoma's Black Wallstreet went up in flames, we had to have found satisfaction in having our own and doing for ourselves. These were self-sufficient communities, but they were limited to the confines of the square mileage of the area where they were found. The Honorable Mosiah Marcus Garvey was doing business in more of a "major way" because the UNIA movement was nationwide and his thoughts were centered around the whole of his people and not just one church, congregation or even city. The Nation of Islam was and is nationwide (actually international) and Minister Farrakhan has picked up the mantle of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and thinks on a broad-based level to bring relief to the suffering masses of our people, which requires business being done "in a major way"...so I thank you for your comment. "My question is this when did all the businesses close down? where are they still thriving and why were they allowed to dismantle them?" - knowledgemath The economic enterprises began to decline at some point after 1975 (when the Honorable Elijah Muhammad departed). As I am sure you know, the government was always trying to bring about the demise of Black organizations, so it goes without saying that external and internal forces were at work trying to level our enterprises. As long as the mission and the vision was at the forefront of the leader's mind, those efforts largely were unsuccessful, but in 1975, a new leadership assumed control of the Nation and lost many businesses, which is essentially why Minister Farrakhan had to virtually build from scratch. I neglected to mention this in the first thread, but I wanted to mention that in October of 2001, the Three Year Economic Savings Program was incorporated as a 501-C3, not for profit corporation. This insures that your contributions are tax deductible and the properties bought with those contributions will be owned by the corporation and not individuals. Brother Mansa... "This idea of youth labor is pregnant with success and will greatly help if not solve the labor ?. thank you all for this work, peace." - Mansa Bey We have had youth of all ages volunteering on the farm... Dallas Mississippi Detroit in the House!!! Newark ...but much more assistance is needed. Let us be about the business of building a better future for our people. Peace. Ali Muhammad |
|||
Cosmonaut Seven |
Re: Eon Neo, Cosmonaut Seven, Dell Gines, Knowledgemath... | ||
|
"The only problem that I see is that our people have developed a dislike toward working the land because we were forced to work the land during slavery. We would have to build the desire within our people which would naturally incline them to WILLINGLY submit themselves to such service. Of course to employ the services of those who are 12-17, we would have to have teachers who were willing to lend their services to those volunteers."
True indeed, but I think in my generation there has been a reappraissal of the value of being in touch with the soil directly. In the wake of the millenium scare and the ongoing specter of the grid failing and being cut off from the infrastructure many brothers and sisters are aware of the importance of being able to grow food and survive in nature. There are still many who suck the breast of modern technology past the weaning wage but I for one want to know how to time to sowing of seeds and master irrigation and soil science. At some point in my life I will devote myself to hands on learning of this. And yes the NOI should negotiate to have brothers in prison serve in the orchards and fields for their people, especially those who sold drugs or murdered in the hood. |
|||
Samuel Muhammad |
... | ||
|
Peace,
Two of the reasons we didn't and maybe don't like working on the land is because it was forced upon us by our open enemy for the benefit of our open enemy. It is incumbent upon us to get the word out to our people that the farmland belongs to the black nation. It is the desire of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad that we produce enough harvest to be able to feed the 40 million of us. The best way to help according to Dr. Ridgley Mu'min is to set up food co-ops. Visit the link and lets begin to do something for ourselves. www.muhammadfarms.com/Food%20coops.htm My compliments on the thread Bro. Lighthouse... |
|||
The Legacy of the Overseer |
Economic Self-Suffficiency | ||
|
And Economic Warfare.
There's one more component: defense. I'll come back later, but here's a quick footnote: It's not only important that we're economically self-sufficient, but we need to be able to protect our neighborhoods. Too many times we've build up our hoods to have the white folks, be it police, military, or ordinary citizens destroy it. Maybe we need to go on reservations and build those up, to rekindle the alliance we historically have had with the Red peoples of the land. We do hereby declare reality unkempt by the changing standards of dialogue. Statements, such as, 'keep it real', especially when punctuating or anticipating modes of ultra-violence inflicted psychologically or physically or depicting an unchanging rule of events will hence forth be seen as retro-active and not representative of the individually determined is. Saul Williams -- Coded Language |
|||
Noble One |
Re: | ||
|
Lighthouse
Nice pictures. I like to see Black people producing. And if the laborers started wearing uniforms to farm in they'd REALLY be "out cold" as they use to say. Maybe they need to call yall over to Zimbabwe and help them manage their agriculture so they don't have to go begging white folks. |
|||
Aminah74 |
Re: Re: | ||
|
Ali, I love this thread brother. I can not get enough of it.
|
|||
Hustler Of Culture |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
PEACE
I've recently been researching the self-sufficiency of sub-cultures in the U.S., namely the amish, mennonites, and the yogi's in Fairfeild, Iowa. Investigating their autonimous infrastructure and survival tatics inorder to see what could be beneficially employed by Original People in the way of perserving an independant identity and way of life. Yes, much lip professing goes on amongst our people and collectives, still the fact remains that every nation has two unescapable characteristics - territory and a gross national product. Original People in the U.S. and our idealogical collectives have neither; the order of the day is disenfranchisement and gentrification. Pooling our resources and committing to avoid extraneous and temporal consumer goods/vices and using the savings for investment in a common fianancial object is promising. As a youth in Harlem, I recall the popularity of "Steak n' Take" with the people. It is a sign that we do support own, so while the discussion is about pooling resources the inspiration should come from the reality that such efforts will be successfully supported by the community. Plus if we feed our people physical food, it opens the door to feed them righteousness. PEACE He Ruler U-N-I-verse Allah |
|||
E turn L |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
The collective effort toward the common cause of economic self sufficiency with the added benefits of food, clothing, and shelter is worthy and attainable.
Original youth have been marginalized, whether poor or middle class. Any training outside of college prep is necessary. Agricultural technology training is needed, and would benefit our people in myriad ways. This can be carried forth meaningfully as long as it is obviously stated that the program is for original people- regardless of religious and social affiliation. Legacy mentioned protection. This is important. There must be a trained army of men who are capable of physically defending property, as well as an army of men and women who are capable of LEGALLY defending property. There was a recent story about a federal agent going to an Amish farmer's house and asking for raw milk. The Amish farmer hesitated, but obliged. The agent gave him $3 for the milk. The agent returned later and arrested the farmer for violating Pennsylvania law that prohibits dispersal of raw milk. The Amish community can use the milk themselves because they communally pay for the cows' service. But that one act could put the whole community at risk. The devil is dirty. So we must be prepared. One Ali- I missed your call. My phone must have been on airplane mode that day. I just now checked my voice mail. |
|||
Cosmonaut Seven |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
good point. I say the struggle requires 3 branches.
1 a legislative/legal arm that provides law for the community and composes legislation for reparations etc dealing with the US govt. 3 strikes changes etc. and defending us in court. 2 a military arm to defend when Ruby Ridge foolishness occurs. 3 a civil service arm for education and cultural management. |
|||
ProudWhiteTrashII |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
awesome pictures...and damn that was a nice harvest
opgroeien voor galg en rad
|
|||
starandcrescent |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
May Allah Bless you for being such a profound educator Ali.
|
|||
marsIchiban |
Re: ''When Black People Pool Our Resources'' Comment Thread | ||
|
peace and much love.
what's happening with farms in Louisiana? 'cause this mainstream thing is ridiculous here - one of the most important coastal trading ports in all of the americas, New Orleans, and avocados, mangos are two fer four dollars U.S. i don't comprehend why people don't eat platanos much but those are a bit more reasonable - not readily available though. shoot, in venezuela, mangos drop from trees uneaten and you can observe folks selling naranjas (oranges) at stands for MILES up and down a highway - strange market if you ask me, everybody selling the same thing. marsIchiban Elevate! kwality multi communication connection Good Look Out Re-distribution Q.arma bldg. box 106 c/o Larsen (b + k) 1224 Quincy St. NE; Suite B10 Minneapolis, MN 55413 marsIchiban@yahoo.com Artist Resource Management Fuentes del Joventud Wordsmith Attn: Program Manager Safe Haven Community Center 1024 Orange Blossom Ln. Harvey, LA 70058-4813 Re: Conversations Thursday and Friday, 18-19 October Being that creation may possibly be heaven or hell depending on our relative perspective and attitude, a meaning and definition of each concept deserves critical attention. Agreed, that the conception of heaven and hell may both be in the framework of a now and later; with specific emphasis on The Black Experience in all of The Americas, let us concentrate our discussion on an example of the internal and external forces relative to such experience. The Energy of Word spoken, accompanied with the Drums of Communication be broadcast through a car audio system. To paraphrase, an orator was explaining his opinion concerning the oft-quoted cliché, experience is the best teacher. The opinion expressed a concern for each person who lives and learns by experience, that it is not necessary for everybody to experience the same situations, for, if one makes a mistake, then the others could, should and would learn by that relatively bad example. Certainly, this sentiment reflects the ideal perspective of the orator; an attitude of well intended character. If I may observe, however, that in order to balance this equation, one must be aware of the real circumstances that factor into this formula for arriving at Truth. The reality is that most people resemble a metaphorical adam and eve the first man and woman of Christian lore, who were directed to not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil only The Tree of Life. Unfortunately for them, as the story goes, only by sacrificing their relative innocence and experiencing the relatively bad or evil were they in a position to appreciate the so-called good. Ideally we could, should and would learn from this example of service learning and ideally not re-create an identical destructive experience. But let us review the perspective of the automobile oration, a commentary on relatively negative influences; what happens with our formula if the example is one of a positive nature one that instructs us on the values and virtues that enable exponential creation? Let us inquire, What is positive about The Black Experience in the Americas? From this perspective what relative benefits may be derived from the common wisdom of our ancestors? Ideally, heaven should be a possibility that may be spoken into existence depending on our attitude NOW, in the present tense; we are all too familiar with the reality, however. But I insist these are external influences, and to quote the Goodie Mob, representing Southwest Atlanta, The battles no longer physical/its from with-in/you live to die/and you die to live again/but you cant win for loosing/what sides are you choosing/decisions, decisions to make/decisions, decisions to make What are some of the internal forces that motivate decisions derived via The Black Experience in the Americas? If I may offer my opinion, a priority might be the common wisdom that capitalist colonial society is founded on exclusion and exploitation. In general, its governing organization doesnt represent the masses; its a fine idea, a wonderful intention, however reality does not compliment this masquerade! Specifically, en Los Estados Unidos (the United States,) government is neither of the people, by the people nor for the people it is the most awesome carnival in the world! I write that because even though I dont like it, I must respect it. As a result of common wisdom of Black Experiences in the Americas, I would logically conclude that we would agree with the perspective of an orator who advises no longer choosing to continue replicating this particular experience. Unfortunately, most folks have to get kicked out of The Garden in order to appreciate the splendor of which they once innocently participated. Eventually excluded and exiled, I think most folks attitude becomes less disciplined and lacking character. No matter what they intend by attempting to speak into existence, the motivation is suspect due to fear, anger, lack of confidence and self-esteem, suffering and bitterness. YES! For five hundred years the experience has been a creation of a relatively troublesome hell on earth but on the other hand, recognize the changing game. Rather than acting as political pawns, do we ever hear of adam and eve realizing their collective mistake by acknowledging their experience and vowing to improve the basic fundamentals on which it came into being? No longer innocent, do we ever hear of a metaphorical journey to re-enter The Garden by methods of conflict resolution where, in terms of group experience, forgiveness is required not only of others but of self? Is it possible to trust others when you do not trust in your own self? Most certainly, some events must not be forgotten and as a matter of what we choose to spend time remembering, we know that our so-called government DOES NOT represent and HAS NOT represented its claims. What outcome may be predicted with this pattern? IT NEVER WILL; further, ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO! Do we really want to be members of this particular garden club? Brother Minister El Hajj Malik El Shabazz, Malcolm X, opines that it would be insane to insist on patronizing a business where one is not welcome. The game is changing from miss-representation to self-sufficient inter-dependent participation! I never heard that there could not be in existence more than one Garden! That stated I am impressively aware of the absence of punctuality with regard to The Black Experience in the United States, both literally and metaphorically. Participation means being on time; it means A BEING - an existence - in sync with a time/space continuum; it means that the internal priorities switch that alarms habitual motivations of intention, discipline and character be rearranged to reflect the common experience and wisdom of our ancestors which in this case is an identical source of energy motivating a perspective of the automobile orators expression. Participation means being conscious and aware; it means A BEING - an existence - representing conscious awareness and a super ability to harmonize with-in a Universal chorus composed of supernatural, heavenly, galactic, Astral Hosts. We are arrogant to continue acting in space alone! As I participated in the Louisiana Association of Non-profit Organizations (LANO) this week, I became acutely aware of both the necessity for preparation and lack of vision to head warnings directing us towards completion of such a mission. For certain, what happens when the eyes of the world are no longer focused on aftermathematics of The Hurricane Katrina Apocalypse? What Revelations are predictions of the future and how does what we are doing now both compliment and oppose unavoidable confrontation of crises? Rather than escape our duties, what self-sufficient practices and tactics are we cultivating knowing in our subconscious that we have already lost the attention of the United States? That is not to say that the attention we did get was as helpful, beneficial and on-time as possible (or ever was), or ever be Willed. Once again, the patterns of this experience indicate destruction; what could, should and would be learned from the experience and mistakes of habitual tardiness in general - regardless of either our own excuses or specific capitalist colonial exploitative and exclusionary practitioners? Let us debate who is responsible later, after we have survived these crises. There exists more than one house flooding and trust Intuition is guiding us for choosing which one to allocate resources. We MUST organize our own effort invent it, speak it into existence, follow through on words with actions and everything thing else inspired by participation in a wake of under preparedness. Let reactionary concedures pass a timely death in both a literal manner with respect to the proactive requirements of our circumstance and on a larger, more abstract metaphysical plane. Perhaps a definition for proactive would be professionally active, meaning the occupation required of each generation with respect to generations both before and after. This includes what order our attitudes represent and are re-presenting, create and re-creating; in contrast to relatively good and bad, Im referring to Absolute. There exists no other option except for Being the definition of a Destiny that we intend for it to mean. When the concept of heaven is birthed into the present (perhaps pre-sent?), imagine what a harvest our seeds will reap!
Last Edited By: marsIchiban
10/24/08 13:15:09.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
MisterJackson.hiphopnews |
|||
lighthouseali wrote: seperation...SEPERATION..Seperation...HAS BEEN THE CONCLUSION FROM THE BEGINNING. WE MUST CHANGE OUR MIND SET...GET WITH IT BEFORE IT GETS TO YOU...For example...the Churches must stop hiring outside of the congregation and community for what they need built or done...STOP TAKIN TITHES TO MAKE SOMEONE WHITE OR MEXICAN RICH... SURE FELLAS AND ESPECIALLY OUR WOMEN..WILL ARGUE THAT SEPERATION IS NOT PRACTICAL...THEY LOVE THE MASTA..THEY JUST WANT HIM AND HER TO 'PLAY' FAIR.
Your Signature ... Truth is not affected by how one feels about it..
|
|||
MisterJackson.hiphopnews |
|||
Cosmonaut Seven wrote:GOOD POST...
Your Signature ... Truth is not affected by how one feels about it..
|
|||