NOI and KeepitRealisrael (formerly NOI and Bible)............BEFORE he deleted his questions. in The Lighthouse Forum

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NOI and KeepitRealisrael (formerly NOI and Bible)............BEFORE he deleted his questions.

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TroyX	NOI and KeepitRealisrael (formerly NOI and Bible)............BEFORE he deleted his questions.	Lead	[-]
Posts: 8 Jun 6 10 8:22 PM More My Recent Posts	Tags : None This debate is in response to a Youtube video, posted by user KeepitRealisrael, entitled "NOI vs Bible". I ask everyone to refrain from posting until he presents his arguments. Last Edited By: lighthouseali Jul 7 10 8:37 AM. Edited 6 times.
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TroyX		#1	[-]
Posts: 8 Jun 28 10 9:13 AM More My Recent Posts	IamThatIam, Do you have a specific topic you would like to debate about? I'm not sure what I should be responding to.
IamThatIam		#2	[-]
Posts: 118 Jul 1 10 5:18 PM More My Recent Posts	Can the Devil do good? http://www.seventhfam.com...ooks/black_man/blk54.htm The Message of the Black man / Truth of Guilty Made Known” Paragraph 6 They were not created to love respect any member of the darker nations, for they are by nature, as Almighty Allah has taught them, in capable of loving even themselves. Paragraph 7 They cannot produce good, for they are without the nature of good... Note: WHITE PEOPLE CANNOT DO GOOD http://www.seventhfam.com...ur_saviour/saviour17.htm Our Savior has Arrived / A Few White People are Muslims by Faith Paragraph 3 There are quite a few white people in America who are Muslim by faith. Good done by any person is rewarded and these white people who believe in Islam will receive the Blessing of entering into the Hereafter. We have "two" conflicting statements here. One says the Devil cannot do good and the other the Devil can do good. CONTRADICTION!!!
IamThatIam		#3	[-]
Posts: 118 Jul 1 10 5:21 PM More My Recent Posts	CAN THE DEVIL BE REFORMED? SUPREME WISDOM LESSON BOOK/ V. LOST-FOUND MUSLIM LESSON NO. 2 http://www.thenationofislam.org/muslimlessontwo.html 34. And can you reform devil? ANS. No. All the prophets have tried to reform him (devil), but were unable. (According to the teachings of Elijah Muhammad, the devil CANNOT BE REFORMED Source---> http://www.allahteam.info/masterfard.htm CAN THE DEVIL BE REFORMED? Contradictory Statement... Fard's mother was a Caucasian woman from the mountains of Asia. This woman is supposed to have been raised since the age of six under the Islamic Sharia or Law in Mecca, Arabia. Her family was said to have been Muslim. She was taken through a "purification" process so that she could bare this child. This is the woman that the Bible says had the "seven devils" cast out of her. Her name was reportedly Baby Gee. She was specially prepared to give birth to this Special Son. (The following quote was transcribed from a video-taped lecture of the 1973 Saviour's Day Lecture) (http://www.muhammadspeaks.com/news.html) This Caucasian female who is suppose to be of a race of Devil's (according to the teachings of Elijah Muhammad) has been purified. I do not care whether it was by way of casting 7 devils or ABRACADABRA! The fact that she has been PURIFIED!!! means that she has reformed.
IamThatIam		#4	[-]
Posts: 118 Jul 1 10 5:25 PM More My Recent Posts	Is Adam & Eve a race of Devil's or the Righteous? (Http:/www.thenationofislam.org/muslimlessontwo.html) THE SUPREME WISDOM LESSONS/ V. LOST-FOUND MUSLIM LESSON NO. 2 33. What is devil? ANS. A grafted man which is made weak and wicked. Or, any grafted, live germ from the original is a devil. Note: A devil is a grafted man http://www.seventhfam.com...ooks/black_man/blk55.htm The Message to the Black man / V. The Making of the Devil Paragraph 90 In the days of Yakub's grafting of the present white race, a new and unalike race... paragraph 98 The Yakub made devils were really pale white, with really blue eyes; Note: A grafted man is the White Race http://www.seventhfam.com...ooks/black_man/blk62.htm The Message to the Blackman / The White Race’s false claim to be Divine, Chosen people Paragraph 1 According to the Bible (Gen. 3:20-24), Adam and his wife were the first parents of all people (white race only) and the first sinners. Note: Adam and Eve are Caucasian http://www.seventhfam.com...ooks/black_man/blk58.htm The Message to the Black man / The Beast Part 2 Paragraph 1 God and His Prophets could not have given the white race a better name (serpent) according to the characteristics of that race. The serpent of Genesis 3:1 was none other than the devil (white race). He deceived Adam and his wife, causing them to disobey Allah (God), which was the plan of the serpent (devil), according to the history of the devils. Their greatest desire is to make the righteous disobey the law of righteousness. Note: The devil deceived Adam and Eve (The righteous) How can the devil deceive Adam & Eve who in turn are the devil themselves; since they are part of the Caucasian race, who is grafted and grafted people are the devil?
IamThatIam		#5	[-]
Posts: 118 Jul 1 10 5:31 PM More My Recent Posts	There you go boys have fun with those questions... LOL smiley faces
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lighthouseali		#6	[-]
Posts: 9623 Jul 2 10 1:39 PM Lighthouse Keeper More My Recent Posts	It is quite dishonest for IamthatIam to present this issue on 07/01/10 at 17:21:59 and act as though his issue was never addressed on 06/30/10 at 10:32:07. http://politicalpalace.yuku.com/topic/14847?page=2 From the above link... "WHITE PEOPLE CANNOT DO GOOD" - IamthatIam Removing words from the greater body of writings allows you to reinterpret such words in most cases, but not on my watch. IamthatIam has taken quotes that contain the plural pronoun "they". Who is the "they"? Does this plural pronoun "they" simply refer to "white people" as IamthatIam suggests or has the "they" been identified as referring to something very specific? If we go to Chapter 54 of Message to the Black man in America, we will see... http://www.seventhfam.com...ooks/black_man/blk54.htm "4 They (white race)" ...and even though number four numerically precedes number six, Mr. Muhammad did not wait to get to number four to clarify who the "they" was referencing. From the outset, he established who the "they" referenced, for in point number one we find... "-- the white race." So if we are to remain TRUE to what Mr. Muhammad has presented, IamthatIam's assertion must read... "The white race cannot do good" However, he has found no quotes within Mr. Muhammad's teachings that directly contradict that statement. He goes on to highlight a sentence which makes use of a noun in its singular form - "person". Has Mr. Muhammad written that good done by any "PEOPLE" will be rewarded? No. Has Mr. Muhammad written that good done by any "RACE" will be rewarded? No. There is no contradiction. Is a "person" a "race"? No. No contradiction. Whoa...Did Lighthouse Ali just shut down his "argument" without even touching the second statement? I don't do fast food, so small fries are easily discarded. "Conclusion: This is a contradiction within the NOI doctrine " - IamthatIam No, all we can conclude that IamthatIam's two statements are his and they contradict themselves. He has established no contradiction within the writings of the NOI that he presented in this particular...LOL..."question". Peace. Ali Muhammad
lighthouseali		#7	[-]
Posts: 9623 Jul 2 10 1:41 PM Lighthouse Keeper More My Recent Posts	"I do not care whether it was by way of casting 7 devils or ABRACADABRA! The fact that she has been PURIFIED!!! means that she has reformed." - IamthatIam The Honorable Elijah Muhammad says that the mother of Master Fard Muhammad was made a good muslim. He has not used the language of "purified" or "reformed". "So, He said, His father went up into the hills and there he found him a wife. A white wife. And he taken her and made a good Muslim out of her." http://www.muhammadspeaks.com/news.html For IamthatIam to establish contradiction, he must find the Honorable Elijah Muhammad stating that no white person can be a muslim, but he can't do that. Interpreting "good muslim" as "reformed" does not cut it. In fact, this whole method of extrapolating to make an argument is flawed as it leans on inference and attempts to indirectly establish contradiction. His examples keep falling apart before his eyes. Is he such a big bad opponent that his issues can't be handled? No. By now, it should be ABUNDANTLY clear that such is NOT the case. Peace. Ali Muhammad
lighthouseali		#8	[-]
Posts: 9623 Jul 2 10 1:42 PM Lighthouse Keeper More My Recent Posts	"Is Adam & Eve a race of Devil's or the Righteous?" - IamthatIam There are two Adams discussed in scripture. Adam in the Quran is created from Black mud by the Creator, a SINGULAR diety. 15:28 "And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered." (pickthall) This Adam is the original man out of which all humans come. All of mankind comes from the Black man and woman of the planet Earth. The Adam and Eve of the Bible are made in the image and likeness of a GROUP. For in Genesis 1:26, we find "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea...". Biblical theologians suggest that beginning with Adam, man is only 6,000 years old. The only people on our planet 6,000 years old who were made in the image and likeness of a group were caucasians, so the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says that Adam and Eve in the Bible are representative of the white race. There is even further Biblical evidence that Adam and Eve of the Bible were not the original people on the planet. Cane taking a wife from outside the Garden of Eden is proof positive that the Adam and Eve of the biblical account are not the original people. ¹⁶And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. ¹⁷And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived... The presence of people in the land of Nod shows that there were people on the planet outside the family of Adam. There are two Adams discussed in scripture, so depending on the context used, Adam can represent the righteous OR a race of devils. I'm going to repeat that... Depending on the context used, Adam can represent the righteous OR a race of devils. 1 According to the Bible (Gen. 3:20-24), Adam and his wife were the first parents of all people (white race only) and the first sinners. This falls in line with the explanation that was already given. You must look at the context of the quote. Now, if we look at the second quote IN THE CONTEXT in which it was presented, we see that Mr. Elijah Muhammad was not speaking to the identity of Adam, but rather the NATURE and CHARACTERISTICS of the caucasian and the example of the serpent is used in scripture to identify their CHARACTERISTICS as decievers. One quote deals with symbolic representation of a made people and the other quote deals with characteristics of the made people, but all of this is symbolism as serpents can't speak to people, so to suggest that one unrighteous person was literally speaking to another unrighteous person shows lack of thought on IamthatIam's part. Again, no contradiction. Peace. Ali Muhammad
IamThatIam		#9	[-]
Posts: 118 Jul 2 10 8:49 PM More My Recent Posts	Occasionally, I check to see if there are any responses to my questions... And I see that Lighthouseali attempted to answer my questions Which I truly highly respect I have not read his responses yet, but I will in the morning... Lighthouse Ali, I respect your efforts, now can you address my other questions please... I will not plague you with a million of questions... I will only plague you with the questions and concerns I feel are the most questionable (suspect)... It is good that you finally decided to man up lol And before I log off, in the words of Rashaan (muslim guy on debate vid) I do not want your interpretation... But rather responses back by Elijah... no exceptions... So I will want to know where to read/listen & watch - from/to & at- to verify your answers (that should not be a problem right?)... Because when it all falls down, I do not want you to bear the weight, but rather Elijah... So I hope he is in the gym on the Mother Plane Cruise Ship Thank you
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NOI and KeepitRealisrael (formerly NOI and Bible)............BEFORE he deleted his questions.

NOI and KeepitRealisrael (formerly NOI and Bible)............BEFORE he deleted his questions.